[OOo-Hebrew] [YBA] RFI for Hebrew OOo SOW 2008

[Jonathan Ben Avraham]

Hi Hebrew OpenOffice list members,
Tk Open Systems will be meeting with representatives of the Israel
Ministry of Finance in the near future to discuss continuation of the
Hebrew OpenOffice project.

At this time there is no commitment for financing the project from the
MoF at any level but also no indication the the MoF intends not to
continue to support the project at some level.

In preparation for the meeting with the MoF later this month we hereby
solicit suggestions from the the Hebrew OOo user community for goals or
tasks to include in the statement of work (SOW) for Hebrew OOo 2008.

Your suggestions should be as specific as possible and realistic in an
engineering sense. For example:

"guarantee 100% compatibility with Microsoft Office"

is neither specific nor realistic. However,

"improve import and export of paragraph numbering in Writer with MS Word"

is both specific and realistic.

Another example of realistic goals would be in areas that are not
specifically related to the programming, such as

"translate the help texts"

or

"provide user documentation for advanced Calc features"


Please post your suggestions to this list for discussion. If the
discussions get out of hand we will take them off-list.

There is also a possibility of setting up a meeting at TkOS offices in
Talpiot next week or the following for those of you who are interested in
providing serious input to the statement of work for Hebrew OOo 2008.

Tk Open Systems acts as a contractor to the MoF for the Hebrew OOo
project. Both Boaz Dolev (MoF) and I have ideas about where to take the
project in the coming year, but since you, the public, are providing the
funding, you should have the final say. This is your opportunity.
Best regards,

- yba

[Hai Zaar]

Proper right-to-left support for bullets in in Impress.

Post by Jonathan Ben Avraham
Hi Hebrew OpenOffice list members,
Tk Open Systems will be meeting with representatives of the Israel
Ministry of Finance in the near future to discuss continuation of the
Hebrew OpenOffice project.
At this time there is no commitment for financing the project from the
MoF at any level but also no indication the the MoF intends not to
continue to support the project at some level.
In preparation for the meeting with the MoF later this month we hereby
solicit suggestions from the the Hebrew OOo user community for goals or
tasks to include in the statement of work (SOW) for Hebrew OOo 2008.
Your suggestions should be as specific as possible and realistic in an
"guarantee 100% compatibility with Microsoft Office"
is neither specific nor realistic. However,
"improve import and export of paragraph numbering in Writer with MS Word"
is both specific and realistic.
Another example of realistic goals would be in areas that are not
specifically related to the programming, such as
"translate the help texts"
or
"provide user documentation for advanced Calc features"
Please post your suggestions to this list for discussion. If the
discussions get out of hand we will take them off-list.
There is also a possibility of setting up a meeting at TkOS offices in
Talpiot next week or the following for those of you who are interested in
providing serious input to the statement of work for Hebrew OOo 2008.
Tk Open Systems acts as a contractor to the MoF for the Hebrew OOo
project. Both Boaz Dolev (MoF) and I have ideas about where to take the
project in the coming year, but since you, the public, are providing the
funding, you should have the final say. This is your opportunity.
Best regards,
- yba
--
EE 77 7F 30 4A 64 2E C5 83 5F E7 49 A6 82 29 BA ~. .~ Tk Open Systems
=}------------------------------------------------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
--
To unsubscribe see: http://openoffice.org.il/mailman/listinfo/hebrew

[Nadav Har'El]

Post by Jonathan Ben Avraham
Your suggestions should be as specific as possible and realistic in an

In addition to being specific and realistic, doesn't it need to somehow be
an issue specific to Israel?

Post by Jonathan Ben Avraham
Please post your suggestions to this list for discussion. If the
discussions get out of hand we will take them off-list.

My first wish, which is very specific and at least somewhat realistic is:

get all the existing Hebrew bugfixes into the official OpenOffice.

I guess this mostly requires talking and nagging (with the OpenOffice
developer) and relatively little new programming.

Another thing I wish for isn't very specific, but maybe it will spark
a discussion which will be more specific. What I would love to see done
is some sort of setups or frameworks which will facilitate more Israelis,
not just your team, to participate in OpenOffice development. For example,
translation can be done (even if not as well as you did) by a team of
volunteers, and bug fixing and adding features can also be done by volunteers
from the general public. But I think that what's stopping this is the shear
complexity of the OpenOffice project.

For example, I saw that you recently commented on Rene's bug report that the
OpenOffice's builtin Hspell (not the hunspell dictionary of Hspell) needs to be
updated. Dan and I have clearly shown our interest in making Hebrew spell-
checking a reality for OpenOffice, and we are the ones who created the hunspell
format Hebrew dictionary for OpenOffice, but we simply have no idea how to
write a spell-checker for OpenOffice, which is why Alan had to do it. If
there was a way in which this complexity could be simplified, and we had a
way to focus on the Hspell code and not on compiling millions of lines of
code for OpenOffice, maybe we could have done (and can do in the future) this
work and save you the time.

Post by Jonathan Ben Avraham
Tk Open Systems acts as a contractor to the MoF for the Hebrew OOo
project. Both Boaz Dolev (MoF) and I have ideas about where to take the
project in the coming year, but since you, the public, are providing the
funding, you should have the final say. This is your opportunity.

I think that OpenOffice in Hebrew has gone a long way in the last several
years. From a buggy and barely workable solution for Hebrew documents, it
has become a very useful word processor. I believe that for the Hebrew support
not to "decay", at least some minimal level of work needs to be maintained
at fixing small bugs and preventing "decay". I think that such minimal level
of work also needs to be funded.

[Natan Nestel]

I have a MAC and I don't know how to use the Hebrew.
What is the best way to learn?

Thanks,

Natan

On Sun, Jan 06, 2008, Jonathan Ben Avraham wrote about "[OOo-Hebrew] [YBA]

Post by Jonathan Ben Avraham
Your suggestions should be as specific as possible and realistic in an

In addition to being specific and realistic, doesn't it need to somehow be
an issue specific to Israel?

Post by Jonathan Ben Avraham
Please post your suggestions to this list for discussion. If the
discussions get out of hand we will take them off-list.

get all the existing Hebrew bugfixes into the official OpenOffice.
I guess this mostly requires talking and nagging (with the OpenOffice
developer) and relatively little new programming.
Another thing I wish for isn't very specific, but maybe it will spark
a discussion which will be more specific. What I would love to see done
is some sort of setups or frameworks which will facilitate more Israelis,
not just your team, to participate in OpenOffice development. For example,
translation can be done (even if not as well as you did) by a team of
volunteers, and bug fixing and adding features can also be done by volunteers
from the general public. But I think that what's stopping this is the shear
complexity of the OpenOffice project.
For example, I saw that you recently commented on Rene's bug report that the
OpenOffice's builtin Hspell (not the hunspell dictionary of Hspell) needs to be
updated. Dan and I have clearly shown our interest in making Hebrew spell-
checking a reality for OpenOffice, and we are the ones who created the hunspell
format Hebrew dictionary for OpenOffice, but we simply have no idea how to
write a spell-checker for OpenOffice, which is why Alan had to do it. If
there was a way in which this complexity could be simplified, and we had a
way to focus on the Hspell code and not on compiling millions of lines of
code for OpenOffice, maybe we could have done (and can do in the future) this
work and save you the time.

Post by Jonathan Ben Avraham
Tk Open Systems acts as a contractor to the MoF for the Hebrew OOo
project. Both Boaz Dolev (MoF) and I have ideas about where to take the
project in the coming year, but since you, the public, are providing the
funding, you should have the final say. This is your opportunity.

I think that OpenOffice in Hebrew has gone a long way in the last several
years. From a buggy and barely workable solution for Hebrew documents, it
has become a very useful word processor. I believe that for the Hebrew support
not to "decay", at least some minimal level of work needs to be maintained
at fixing small bugs and preventing "decay". I think that such minimal level
of work also needs to be funded.
--
Nadav Har'El | Sunday, Jan 6 2008, 28 Tevet 5768
|-----------------------------------------
Phone [phone], ICQ 13349191 |The meek shall inherit the Earth, for
http://nadav.harel.org.il |they are too timid to refuse it.
--
To unsubscribe see: http://openoffice.org.il/mailman/listinfo/hebrew

[Jonathan Ben Avraham]

Hi Natan,
All of the bug fixes that TkOS puts in the TkOS OOo are submitted to IZ.
Some of the fixes that we make are justifiably considered dirty or
dangerous by the Hamburg group and so do not get into the official OOo. We
take our obligation to make all of our work available to the public
seriously.

Your request to simplify the development by settingup some sort of
framework is not realistic or doable. Doing OOo programming is a full-time
job. This isn't someting that you can do in your spare time unless you are
exceptionally gifted or have six months of spare time and very high
motivation.

It is probably realistic to set up a translation framework that would
allow group participation. We could request budget for this. I think that
this is a good idea. We tried to do this on 2007 but ran out of budget.

There is a fundamental problem with integrating hspell into OpenOffice -
the GPL licensing (and the lack of cross-platform support). That is the
reason that we have not integrated it so far. We need it to be GNU Lesser
General Public License or dual licensed.

- yba

Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 17:06:46 +0200
Subject: Re: [OOo-Hebrew] [YBA] RFI for Hebrew OOo SOW 2008
I have a MAC and I don't know how to use the Hebrew.
What is the best way to learn?
Thanks,
Natan

On Sun, Jan 06, 2008, Jonathan Ben Avraham wrote about "[OOo-Hebrew] [YBA]

Post by Jonathan Ben Avraham
Your suggestions should be as specific as possible and realistic in an

In addition to being specific and realistic, doesn't it need to somehow be
an issue specific to Israel?

Post by Jonathan Ben Avraham
Please post your suggestions to this list for discussion. If the
discussions get out of hand we will take them off-list.

get all the existing Hebrew bugfixes into the official OpenOffice.
I guess this mostly requires talking and nagging (with the OpenOffice
developer) and relatively little new programming.
Another thing I wish for isn't very specific, but maybe it will spark
a discussion which will be more specific. What I would love to see done
is some sort of setups or frameworks which will facilitate more Israelis,
not just your team, to participate in OpenOffice development. For example,
translation can be done (even if not as well as you did) by a team of
volunteers, and bug fixing and adding features can also be done by volunteers
from the general public. But I think that what's stopping this is the shear
complexity of the OpenOffice project.
For example, I saw that you recently commented on Rene's bug report that the
OpenOffice's builtin Hspell (not the hunspell dictionary of Hspell) needs to be
updated. Dan and I have clearly shown our interest in making Hebrew spell-
checking a reality for OpenOffice, and we are the ones who created the hunspell
format Hebrew dictionary for OpenOffice, but we simply have no idea how to
write a spell-checker for OpenOffice, which is why Alan had to do it. If
there was a way in which this complexity could be simplified, and we had a
way to focus on the Hspell code and not on compiling millions of lines of
code for OpenOffice, maybe we could have done (and can do in the future) this
work and save you the time.

Post by Jonathan Ben Avraham
Tk Open Systems acts as a contractor to the MoF for the Hebrew OOo
project. Both Boaz Dolev (MoF) and I have ideas about where to take the
project in the coming year, but since you, the public, are providing the
funding, you should have the final say. This is your opportunity.

I think that OpenOffice in Hebrew has gone a long way in the last several
years. From a buggy and barely workable solution for Hebrew documents, it
has become a very useful word processor. I believe that for the Hebrew support
not to "decay", at least some minimal level of work needs to be maintained
at fixing small bugs and preventing "decay". I think that such minimal level
of work also needs to be funded.
--
Nadav Har'El | Sunday, Jan 6 2008, 28 Tevet 5768
|-----------------------------------------
Phone [phone], ICQ 13349191 |The meek shall inherit the Earth, for
http://nadav.harel.org.il |they are too timid to refuse it.
--
To unsubscribe see: http://openoffice.org.il/mailman/listinfo/hebrew

[Alan Yaniger]

Hi Nadav,

OOo does provide for some simplicity here. OOo source code is divided
into various projects, each of which has its own output directories.
Once you finish development of a project, you copy (or "deliver", to use
their term) the output files to a central repository in the OOo tree
called the "solver". When you build OOo, it's built from the files in
solver.

OOo's website provides developers with a ready-to-go solver. See:

http://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/source/solver.html

If you have a solver, you don't have to build millions of lines of OOo
code, since they're already built. You would have to set up an OOo build
environment for your own code, though. Instructions are at
http://tools.openoffice.org/dev_docs/build_linux.html

At present, the solver download link seems to be broken, but I have
downloaded solvers in the past. They'll probably fix this.

Alan

Post by Nadav Har'El
If
there was a way in which this complexity could be simplified, and we had a
way to focus on the Hspell code and not on compiling millions of lines of
code for OpenOffice, maybe we could have done (and can do in the future) this
work and save you the time.

--
Hebrew OpenOffice Mailing List ***@openoffice.org.il
To unsubscribe see: http://openoffice.org.il/mailman/listinfo/hebrew

[Shachar Shemesh]

Post by Jonathan Ben Avraham
is both specific and realistic.

àðé ôùåè òåáø òì äøùéîä äæå åáåøø ãáøéí ùðàîøå òì éãé. àðé ìà îøéõ àú
äâøñä äòáøéú, ëê ùééúëï ùçì÷ îäáòéåú ëáø úå÷ðå åàðé ìà îåãò ìæä. àí ëï,
àðà ééãòå àåúé åàðé àðñä :-)

ðé÷åã (îéùåí îä ääåãòä ìà îåôéòä áàøëéá, àðé îöøó àåúä ìîééì äæä)

äåãòä îàå÷èåáø 2004 (àéï àøëéá ëì ëê àçåøä) - ëàùø òåøëéí àú äâáåìåú
áèáìä ùëéååðä éîéï ìùîàì, äâáåì äéîðé òì äîñê òåøê àú äâáåì äùîàìé ùì äèáìä.

áàâ ùãååç ëàï åðôúç ìå áàâ áîòøëú, àáì àéï ìé àú îñôøå - áìéðå÷ñ, ëàùø
ä-locale äåà òáøé, îöâåú áôåøîè impress ðôúçåú ëîöâåú òáøéåú ììà úìåú
áàéê äï ðåöøå å/àå ðùîøå. àôùø ìú÷ï àú æä ò"é æä ùîùðéí àú
Format/Presentation/Left-to-right, àáì äùéðåé äæä ìà ðùîø.

ùçø

[Nadav Vinik]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Nadav Vinik <***@gmail.com>
Date: Jan 7, 2008 6:31 AM
Subject: Re: [OOo-Hebrew] [YBA] RFI for Hebrew OOo SOW 2008

Post by Jonathan Ben Avraham
"improve import and export of paragraph numbering in Writer with MS Word"

http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=85033
Writter don't open good *.doc files that have bullets in right to left
that have tab before them

Post by Jonathan Ben Avraham
- yba

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[Shoshannah Forbes]

בנוסף למה שאחךים כתבו, שאולי יתקנו סוף סוף את:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=62879
מאוד יעזוך למשתמשים חדשים!

[ram-pal]

* אם כב׹ מדב׹ים על OO - hebrew openoffice, של׀חות הדיון, התנהל *in hebrew* (
בש׀ה עבךית - בלע"ז ! )

Post by Shoshannah Forbes
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=62879
מאוד יעזוך למשתמשים חדשים!
--
Shoshannah Forbes
http://www.xslf.com
--
To unsubscribe see: http://openoffice.org.il/mailman/listinfo/hebrew

[Nadine Had]

עךב טוב,

להלן התייחסויותיי למס׀ך נקודות במסגךת הדיון לקךאת ה׀גישה עם משךד האוש׹:

* בימים אלה כשמיקךוסו׀ט מ׊יעה גךסה חדשה של או׀יס (2007) עם ממשק חדיש
*הדוךש הסתגלות והד׹כה *עם סוגי קבשים חדשים, נו׊ךת הזדמנות להכניס
את OO בישךאל לכל סוגי משתמשים.
* מיקךוסו׀ט או׀יס מהווה היום *הושאה ך׊ינית גם בתוכנה וגם בדךישות המחשב*.
* ש׹יך לבקש שיתוף ׀עולה עם משךד האוש׹ על מנת לעזוך ב׀יתוח חומ׹י
הד׹כה,תמיכה במשתמשים (ולא ךק לאנשי מחשבים)
* עידוד קוךסים במסגךות שונות ( משךדים אח׹ים, עסקים קטנים ובינוניים).
* א׀שך לה׊יע את הטי׀ול בתךגום OO לעךבית, נוכל לקבל תמיכה גם מחבךות
בינלאומיות.
* מה קו׹ה עם GOOGLE בישךאל, שמעתי שבעולם הם נותנים מילגות ל׀יתוח
יישומים בקוד ׀תוח. אולי גם הם יכולים לעזוך לתקו׀ה קש׹ה ל׀יתוח
הגךסה העבךית.
* קךאתי שעובדים על גךסה 3 של OO . החידוש הגדול שמ׀תחים עכשיו זה
מודול שיא׀שך לעךוך קבשי PDF
* אישית חבל שלא מבינים היום בישךאל את החשיבות לא׀שך את הבחי׹ה בין
יישומי או׀יס OO או MSOFFICE

נדין כהן
"מגךשת מחשב׀וביה"

* אם כב׹ מדב׹ים על OO - hebrew openoffice, של׀חות הדיון, התנהל _in
hebrew_ ( בש׀ה עבךית - בלע"ז ! )
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=62879
<http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=62879>
מאוד יעזוך למשתמשים חדשים!
--
Shoshannah Forbes
http://www.xslf.com <http://www.xslf.com/>
--
To unsubscribe see: http://openoffice.org.il/mailman/listinfo/hebrew
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® ׹מי ׀לטניק
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[juanico]

I agree with everything Nadin wrote.



I may add:

* The Ministry of Treasure loves "competition"; this is the keyword of
the neoliberal economy. Let's stress that if both Microsoft Office and OO
can work with the same file formats, then and only then will be real
competition.
* It may be also important to stress that Holland, Norway (and other
countries ?) governments already decided to use OO. This is a "new modern
trend" and Israel likes to be in the front line.



Marcelo



===================================================================
Dr. Marcelo JuanicoŽ
JuanicoŽ - Environmental Consultants Ltd.
www.juanico.co.il / Skype: marcelo.juanico
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Any complex problem has a simple, easy-to-understand, wrong answer.
===================================================================
_____


From: hebrew-***@openoffice.org.il
[mailto:hebrew-***@openoffice.org.il] On Behalf Of Nadine Had
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 11:28 PM
To: ram-pal
Cc: ***@openoffice.org.il
Subject: Re: [OOo-Hebrew] [YBA] RFI for Hebrew OOo SOW 2008



òøá èåá,

ìäìï äúééçñåéåúéé ìîñôø ð÷åãåú áîñâøú äãéåï ì÷øàú äôâéùä òí îùøã äàåöø:

* áéîéí àìä ëùîé÷øåñåôè îöéòä âøñä çãùä ùì àåôéñ (2007) òí îîù÷ çãéù
äãåøù äñúâìåú åäãøëä òí ñåâé ÷áöéí çãùéí, ðåöøú äæãîðåú ìäëðéñ àú OO áéùøàì
ìëì ñåâé îùúîùéí.
* îé÷øåñåôè àåôéñ îäååä äéåí äåöàä øöéðéú âí áúåëðä åâí áãøéùåú äîçùá.
* öøéê ìá÷ù ùéúåó ôòåìä òí îùøã äàåöø òì îðú ìòæåø áôéúåç çåîøé
äãøëä,úîéëä áîùúîùéí (åìà ø÷ ìàðùé îçùáéí)
* òéãåã ÷åøñéí áîñâøåú ùåðåú ( îùøãéí àçøéí, òñ÷éí ÷èðéí åáéðåðééí).
* àôùø ìäöéò àú äèéôåì áúøâåí OO ìòøáéú, ðåëì ì÷áì úîéëä âí îçáøåú
áéðìàåîéåú.
* îä ÷åøä òí GOOGLE áéùøàì, ùîòúé ùáòåìí äí ðåúðéí îéìâåú ìôéúåç
ééùåîéí á÷åã ôúåç. àåìé âí äí éëåìéí ìòæåø ìú÷åôä ÷öøä ìôéúåç äâøñä äòáøéú.
* ÷øàúé ùòåáãéí òì âøñä 3 ùì OO . äçéãåù äâãåì ùîôúçéí òëùéå æä îåãåì
ùéàôùø ìòøåê ÷áöé PDF
* àéùéú çáì ùìà îáéðéí äéåí áéùøàì àú äçùéáåú ìàôùø àú äáçéøä áéï
ééùåîé àåôéñ OO àå MSOFFICE

ðãéï ëäï
"îâøùú îçùáôåáéä"
www.clickenter.co.il


ram-pal wrote:

* àí ëáø îãáøéí òì OO - hebrew openoffice, ùìôçåú äãéåï, äúðäì in hebrew (
áùôä òáøéú - áìò"æ ! )

áúàøéê 07/01/08, Shoshannah Forbes < <mailto:***@xslf.com> ***@xslf.com>
ëúá:

áðåñó ìîä ùàçøéí ëúáå, ùàåìé éú÷ðå ñåó ñåó àú:
<http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=62879>
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=62879
îàåã éòæåø ìîùúîùéí çãùéí!
--
Shoshannah Forbes
<http://www.xslf.com/> http://www.xslf.com
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***@openoffice.org.il
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http://openoffice.org.il/mailman/listinfo/hebrew




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[ram-pal]

לנדין כהן שלום !
אני ׹ושה להתייחס לנקודה אח׹ונה שלך, "... חבל שלא מבינים...", ׀תךון הבעיה
הוא: שיווק, שיווק, ועוד ׀עם שיווק.
למךות שקוקה-קולה, כולם מכי׹ים ל׀ני יותך מ-100 שנה, החב׹ה קוקה-קולה ממשיכה
ב׀ךסום וקידום מכיךות שלהם...
ושלום לכולם !
׹מי ׀לטניק

Post by Nadine Had
עךב טוב,
- בימים אלה כשמיקךוסו׀ט מ׊יעה גךסה חדשה של או׀יס (2007) עם ממשק חדיש
*הדוךש הסתגלות והד׹כה *עם סוגי קבשים חדשים, נו׊ךת הזדמנות להכניס את
OO בישךאל לכל סוגי משתמשים.
- מיקךוסו׀ט או׀יס מהווה היום *הושאה ך׊ינית גם בתוכנה וגם בדךישות
המחשב*.
- ש׹יך לבקש שיתוף ׀עולה עם משךד האוש׹ על מנת לעזוך ב׀יתוח חומ׹י
הד׹כה,תמיכה במשתמשים (ולא ךק לאנשי מחשבים)
- עידוד קוךסים במסגךות שונות ( משךדים אח׹ים, עסקים קטנים ובינוניים).
- א׀שך לה׊יע את הטי׀ול בתךגום OO לעךבית, נוכל לקבל תמיכה גם מחבךות
בינלאומיות.
- מה קו׹ה עם GOOGLE בישךאל, שמעתי שבעולם הם נותנים מילגות ל׀יתוח
יישומים בקוד ׀תוח. אולי גם הם יכולים לעזוך לתקו׀ה קש׹ה ל׀יתוח הגךסה העבךית.
- קךאתי שעובדים על גךסה 3 של OO . החידוש הגדול שמ׀תחים עכשיו זה
מודול שיא׀שך לעךוך קבשי PDF
- אישית חבל שלא מבינים היום בישךאל את החשיבות לא׀שך את הבחי׹ה בין
יישומי או׀יס OO או MSOFFICE
נדין כהן
"מגךשת מחשב׀וביה"
*www.clickenter.co.il<http://mail.google.com/mail/?attid=0.1.1&disp=emb&view=att&th=11756273c0427c9e>
*
* אם כב׹ מדב׹ים על OO - hebrew openoffice, של׀חות הדיון, התנהל *in hebrew
* ( בש׀ה עבךית - בלע"ז ! )

Post by Shoshannah Forbes
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=62879
מאוד יעזוך למשתמשים חדשים!
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Shoshannah Forbes
http://www.xslf.com
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